When Phoebe asks Holden to name one thing that he really likes, he responds by saying, “I like Allie. And I like doing what I’m doing right now. Sitting here with you, and talking, and thinking about stuff- (pg. 171).” I think that one of the reasons that Holden might treasure his memories with Allie (other than the fact that just loved Allie) is that those memories remind him of his childhood. Holden’s childhood got taken away from him when his brother died. He was forced early on to enter into the adult world and deal with the adult problem of death. Therefore, when he thinks of life with his brother, he thinks of a time where he didn’t have to deal with the darkness of the adult world and some of the harsh realities of life. Do you think that this is where Holden became so obsessed with the idea of childhood or do you think it originated somewhere else?
Later on in this chapter, Holden discusses what he wants to be when he grows up. He said that he knew it was ridiculous, but he wanted to be the catcher in the rye. “Anyway, I keep picturing all these little kids playing some game in this big field of rye and all. Thousands of little kids, and nobody’s around- nobody big, I mean- except me. And I’m standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff- I mean if they’re running and they don’t look where they’re going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That’s all I’d do all day. I’d be the catcher in the rye and all (pg.173).” I think that the reason Holden finds doing this so appealing is because he wants to save children from things that can hurt him, and in his mind, one of those things is growing up. Holden has all these problems with the adult words like dealing with phoniness and death, and he wants to save other children from suffering through that alwell. I think that the children falling off the cliff could be symbolic for children that start to become too much like adults for some traumatic even or by learning to be fake or phony. It could be metaphorical for not letting the child within each person die by falling off a cliff; he wants to preserve the child within the person. Do you think this is what J.D. Salinger’s intentions were when writing this section of the book or do you think he had a different reason for Holden wanting to be the catcher in the rye?
This is a picture of a rye field. Holden may have pictured something like this when imagining where the children would run around, and this is where he'd spend his day in his dream job.
Phoebe also tells us that Holden's song saying "If a body catch a body comin' through the rye," is based on a poem. I thought it might be interesting to read the rest of the poem. This is Robert Burns piece Comin Thro' The Rye.
I agree that Holden subconsciously wants a job like this because he would be saving children from dangers or having to grow up. Children playing in a field would probably be appealing to him because it's a thing only children do, it's kind of like a symbol of childhood. I don't really get how falling of a cliff is a metaphor for becoming grown up or being phony but I'm sure it is one. It is a really weird job to want to have and it's kind of hard to think of how he came up with that over all the other jobs in the world but I also think it kind of shows us, again, how Holden is kind of crazy.
ReplyDeleteI agree that Allie as a symbol for his childhood. When Allie died, part of him did did as well. He was never able to recover from this. I think that the reason he makes so many references to Allie is because he longs for the days when Allie was still alive. He really misses Allie and the person he was when Allie was around. I think that Holden wanting to be a catcher in the rye is showing us that he wants to save others from becoming like him. He wants to give them the secure environment that his parents could never give him.
ReplyDeleteThis was a really good blog post Julia. And I agree with you in almost every aspect. I agree that Holden keeps his memories of Allie of close to him because he loved Allie and also because when he thought of Allie he thought of his childhood. When he talked about the rye field and about being the catcher in the rye, it made me sad. I'm not sure why but I felt pity for Holden. It's supposed to be every child's role to grow up and I think Holden (being almost shoved into the adult world) just wants to be a kid again. I think that the cliff might symbolize adulthood, and if you fall off, you are put into the world of adults. I agree with "Laura Grove?" (if it's actually Laura, great! But if it's someone from class... then I agree with them) by Holden wanting to give the children a secure environment.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, Julia, that Holden wants to be a child so much because he had to grow up so fast and is sick of all the phoniness of the world. I think he wants to be the catcher in the rye for the same reasons that you said. He wants to allow the kids that are forced to grow up to quickly, to suspend that process and enjoy their childhood because he couldn't enjoy it for a very long time. I think this is why he wanted Holden to be the catcher in the rye and this is where the name of the book comes from, in order to wish and job that Holden gives himself.
ReplyDeleteI strongly agree with you Julia, Holden’s childhood was taking away from him at too young of an age because he had to deal with the thought of death. I think that Allies death is where Holden becomes obsessed with the idea of childhood but it doesn’t hit him hard until he begins getting kicked out of schools. I agree with you Julia that Holden wants to save kids from bad things like growing. That also makes sense because falling off a cliff happens fast and entering the adult world the way Holden did, happened fast. No I think J.D. Salinger’s intentions were what you stated.
ReplyDeleteThis was a really good blog post Julia. And I agree with you in almost every aspect. I agree that Holden keeps his memories of Allie of close to him because he loved Allie and also because when he thought of Allie he thought of his childhood. When he talked about the rye field and about being the catcher in the rye, it made me sad. I'm not sure why but I felt pity for Holden. It's supposed to be every child's role to grow up and I think Holden (being almost shoved into the adult world) just wants to be a kid again. I think that the cliff might symbolize adulthood, and if you fall off, you are put into the world of adults. I agree with Laura by Holden wanting to give the children a secure environment.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Julia. I think that Holden is trying to hold on to Allie because it reminds him of an earlier time when he didn't have to worry about phonies, death, and adulthood. I also agree with your statement that Holden is trying to protect the child in everyone, and that falling off the cliff is how the would "lose" what its like to be a child. It's a very interesting way of looking at that portion of the story, and I think that you're right. I agree with Annie when she says that Holden was practically shoved into the adult world. It's true. He didn't have a chance to grow up properly because Allie's death "took away" his childhood. By protecting others, he's helping them keep their childhood, and it's really sad that nobody was there to help him when he lost his brother.
ReplyDeleteI think that Holden wants this job because it reminds him of his childhood, and it also relates back to his brother, Allie and his baseball mitt. The author made Holden think about his brother's baseball mitt when Allie's name first comes into play, so when he wants to be the catcher, he is keeping the thought of his brother alive in his mind. When Holden wants to be the catcher in the rye, I think that he believes that there is nothing that could go wrong or harm the other children's innocence, bringing back Julia's point. Holden wants to save the children, so they don't end up like him and jump into the adult world too fast.
ReplyDeleteI think you've very clearly explained why Holden is so obsessed with childhood. And I think being obsessed has left him feeling alone and has induced his state of madness. And as far as the rye scene goes, I think that's what he is trying to get at. He wants to keep the children (real or at heart) from falling into adulthood. He doesn't want other people to feel the same pain he does. I also think that he says he wished he could be a catcher in the rye because he wanted someone there to save him.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you too Julia and Trevin too that he does wish he was still a child and that his whole childhood didn't fly by so fast. And i agree that he wants to be the catcher in the rye for those reasons too, that any child who is having the same problem as holding, being forced to grow up to fast, to stop and be a kid for a while and live their childhood until it's time to grow up, but then still having those childhood memories to go back to and make their childhood their secure environment, as Laura said.
ReplyDeleteI think that this where Holden got so obsessed with childhood because of the reasons you said Julia, because when Allie died, he was forced to grow up and feel something (Death) that usually adults feel. Also, he loved Allie so when he thought about her, which was all the time, he remembered being a kid again, and his childhood years when he didn't have to feel the pain of death. Also, I think that Holden wants to be a catcher in the rye because he wants to save kids from crossing the threshold into adulthood. Also, I think he wanted someone to catch him from going into adulthood so he wouldn't have to experience the death of Allie.
ReplyDeleteI also agree that Holden is struggling letting go of his childhood and moving into adulthood. Holden didn't really get the chance to ease into childhood he was in a way pushed off the cliff but he wasn't ready or he didn't wan to be ready. Holden wants to be the catcher in the rye so he can save the children from falling into adulthood as abruptly as he did. He wants other kids to be able to live their childhoods to the fullest and love every minute of it and then gradually and gently start becoming an adult.
ReplyDeleteI actually think that he wants to save them because he wishes he could have saved Allie not that he wanted to save their childhood. He is upset that he couldn't save his little brother so he imagines he saves the other children. This is why he wants to be a catcher in the rye not so that he save their childhood but he actually saves them.
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