Chapter 24 starts out with Holden entering Mr. and Mrs. Antolini's house and ends with him leaving. Mr. Antolini was Holden's favorite teacher and we find out that Holden used to hang out with Mr. Antolini quite often when Holden left Elkton Hills. All of chapter 24 is basically Holden and Mr. Antolini, and his highball Holden constantly point out, talking about life. In some ways I feel as if throughout the whole book, Holden has been wanting to talk to somebody but the moment he gets that chance he does not want to. I also found it sort of funny how Holden failed Oral Expression class which teaches you how to speak and how if the speaker got side tract from the topic (just like Holden does) the class yells digression. We also get to see a soft side of Holden once again when he says "I like it when somebody gets excited about something. It's nice". He says this when he explains how he felt sorry for Richard Kinsella when everybody would yell digression at him. During this chapter it is obvious that Mr. Antolini knows Holden very well, for example, he states " I have a feeling that you're riding for some kind of a terrible, terrible fall. But I don't honestly know what kind". The way I interpreted it was that Holden's abyss is approaching him and that maybe Holden never really crosses back into the "known" world or at least he never crosses back into in this book. In this chapter Mr. Antolini comes across to me as a mentor, he is constantly giving Holden advice but Holden just doesn't seem to be listening. His excuse for not listening was because he had a headache, then a stomach ache, then because he was just tired but maybe Holden just didn't want to listen. At the end of the chapter Holden wakes up from the feeling of a mans hand and it turns out to be Mr. Antolini's hand stroking Holden. Holden then tells us that he has had more problems with perverts than we can imagine. Do you think Holden over exaggerated the whole scenario?
I think Holden probably did overexaggerate the scenario and we really have no way of knowing whether or not Mr. Antolini did something actually wrong. We only have Holden's point of veiw but maybe all that happened was Mr. Antolini was drunk and trying to wake him up. I'm sure in Holdens mind this is what happened but his perception of it might be totally different than what actually happened. Holden never gives him a chance to explain himself so we can't really know what happened. One of the main reasons I think Holden might have been exaggerating is because he says in the end that this kind of pervert-y stuff had happened to him like twenty times. That is extremely hard to believe and I'm positive it must be an exaggeration. If he hadn't have said that, I probably would have believed him about this.
ReplyDeleteI think that Holden didn't overreact. I think Holden had every right to be freaked out when he woke up, even if Mr. Antolini was drunk. Sure, he may have overreacted because he rushes to leave. However, I don't think that he overreacted about the perverty things. Like Presley said, Holden tells us that that perverty things has happened to him about 20 times since he was a kid. But unlike Presley, this makes me believe Holden more. I think that it's possible that Holden could have suffered some type of sexual abuse in the past. Maybe nothing like Jane, but maybe that's why he knew what to do during the checkers game. And maybe that's why he wants to have a connection with her so badly, because she knows how he feels. I could be completely wrong, but I think that could be one of the reasons for that reaction.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Presley and think he did over-exaggerate the events due to that he has proven him self to be an unreliable narrator. He always says to tell you the truth, but he also said he was the best lier you ever saw. Also, he was probably just shocked by Mr. Antolini patting his head, as he idealized him in his mind and having someone who he thought was perfect patting him on the head, along with his instability, led to him rushing out of Mr. Antolini's house. Another reason why I think he overreacted and overexaggerated was because of his probable case of bipolar disorder. He goes through times of depression like when he is mourning Allie's death and times when he is manic like when he yells at Sally when he gets really excited about running away with her. Also, in chapter 25 Holden admits that he probably did exaggerate and even thought about going back.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Trevin and Presley because I think that Holden is over exaggerating the situation as well. I think this because we have witnessed Holden exaggerate many things and situations throughout the book. I think he exaggerates in general because he wants to make sure he gets his point across. I agree with you, John David, that Mr. Antolini was Holden's mentor because he is giving him a lot of advice. However, I think that after Holden stayed at Mr. Antolini's house, Holden realized that Mr. Antolini isn't who he thought he was. Holden finds out that Mr. Antolini is a heavy drinker, a pervert and rude to his wife. As a result, Holden loses respect for Mr. Antolini and might not see Mr. Antolini as he used to.
ReplyDeleteI think Mr. Antolini was a mentor to Holden in some ways, and in other ways, he is definitely not. He was a mentor to Holden because he gives him advice and also is very nice to him, but he also did strange things in chapter 24 that showed me that Holden is surrounded by some bad people. Also, I agree with you John David in that it is very funny that Holden failed a class called Oral Expressions. This is funny because the whole book Holden digresses, and gets side tracked all the time. At one point he is talking about something, and the next moment he is talking about something else. I think if Holden was in our class, he would have to take home non-sequitur a lot, and also have Ms. Fleming tell him that was a non-sequitur.
ReplyDeleteI agree with J.B about Mr. Antolini being Holden's mentor in some ways. I think he portrays the character of a mentor when he is telling him about falling and trying to get him interested into school again. On the other hand the drinking and smoking makes him an antitype to the modern reader. I also thin Holden over-exaggerates the scenario. Like Thomas had aid previously, Holden exaggerated many things in the story before, what makes this description of him being touched true. J.D, I also agree with you on your other points you previously stated.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Annie. I don't think he overreacted. I would have been pretty creeped out too if I woke up to an older man stroking my head. But even through all this, I still think that Mr. Antolini is his mentor. This is because he offers guidance to Holden in a troubling time, just as a mentor is meant to do. If Holden had not woken up to Mr. Antolini doing what he did, he would be held in much higher regard as a mentor in Holden's eyes.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Annie and Coleman. I think that at the beginning of the chapter while Mr. Antolini gave Holden advice about what to do as far as education and how to change some of his views on the world, Mr. Antolini was his mentor. I started feeling hopeful that Holden would find some way to listen to his advice and get back on track with his life. However, as the story progressed and Holden woke up to see Mr. Antolini rubbing his head, I thought that just made the whole situation creepy. It made me feel worse for Holden because it showed him that even the people you look up to will end up letting you down. Holden isn't stable enough to deal with that at this point in time.
ReplyDeleteI also agree that Holden did not overreact to waking up and seeing Mr. Antolini, someone he looked up to and valued, stroking his head. That is creepy and would be very unsettling. I think if anyone was in the same situation, they would probably react very similar to Holden. I would say that Mr. Antolini is a mentor for Holden because, as Coleman said, he offers advice and help when Holden really needs it the most. But after Holden woke up to him stroking his head, he definitely lost some respect in Holden's mind.
ReplyDeleteI think Holden has compleatly hyperbolized this scean. I think Mr. Antolini is a genuine nice person and really cares about Holden's well being. I think Holden is just really just misunderstanding Mr. Antolini's acts of kindness. Mr. Anotlini went from bing Holden's mentor to a pervert in a matter of seconds which show the turmoil Holden is going through.
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