As I had read this chapter, I couldn't bother but notice the symbolic meanings that had been in the subtext of this part of the book. Holden entered this chapter with fear and depression. Mr. Antolini had supposedly touched his head in a weird perverted way but we don't know if that happened. I think Holden did get touched but maybe not in a weird and perverted way. On the other hand if Mr. Antolini touching him is true, anyone petting your head at night probably is touching you in a weird way. This brought up bad memories for Holden, yet I found this particular section less important and meaning-full than the other half of this chapter. When Holden tells Phoebe that he is leaving, she is willing to leave with Holden and leave school, her play, and family behind. Holden immediately responds with harsh words and keeps telling her to shut up. This might be a sign of Holden being angry with himself for having the idea of leaving. This part also seemed like the abyss to me because for Holden to tell his sister, the person he loves most, to shut up made me feel bad for both Phoebe and Holden. In my opinion Phoebe is almost used as a mirror to show that Holden has matured. He is constantly reminding her of what she would leave behind if she had left and telling her that her leaving is ridiculous. Phoebe is the reflection of Holden's childhood. She wants to leave everything behind and become free again while Holden in his more mature form is talking about how ridiculous the idea was. In this chapter he also makes a rebirth. When he is going to the zoo and letting Phoebe ride the carousel and watching her as an adult to his or her child. This shows he is in control of his emotions once more. It might also be metaphorical for Holden as an adult watching his younger self. The reason I am saying this is because Phoebe seems to attain a character similar to that of Holden's immature and childish version. When Holden is in control of Phoebe again, he therefore is in control of his childish feelings. The picture above is a picture I took a long time ago but I had chosen it for several reasons. First of all the reflection symbolizes what I had previously stated. Second the darkness to the right is beginning to become overcome by the light from the dock symbolizing rebirth. Maybe I am over thinking about the reflection, but tell me what you think. Do you agree/disagree, or do you have another idea? If you do, share.
Monday, May 16, 2011
Reflections, Chapter 25
4
As I had read this chapter, I couldn't bother but notice the symbolic meanings that had been in the subtext of this part of the book. Holden entered this chapter with fear and depression. Mr. Antolini had supposedly touched his head in a weird perverted way but we don't know if that happened. I think Holden did get touched but maybe not in a weird and perverted way. On the other hand if Mr. Antolini touching him is true, anyone petting your head at night probably is touching you in a weird way. This brought up bad memories for Holden, yet I found this particular section less important and meaning-full than the other half of this chapter. When Holden tells Phoebe that he is leaving, she is willing to leave with Holden and leave school, her play, and family behind. Holden immediately responds with harsh words and keeps telling her to shut up. This might be a sign of Holden being angry with himself for having the idea of leaving. This part also seemed like the abyss to me because for Holden to tell his sister, the person he loves most, to shut up made me feel bad for both Phoebe and Holden. In my opinion Phoebe is almost used as a mirror to show that Holden has matured. He is constantly reminding her of what she would leave behind if she had left and telling her that her leaving is ridiculous. Phoebe is the reflection of Holden's childhood. She wants to leave everything behind and become free again while Holden in his more mature form is talking about how ridiculous the idea was. In this chapter he also makes a rebirth. When he is going to the zoo and letting Phoebe ride the carousel and watching her as an adult to his or her child. This shows he is in control of his emotions once more. It might also be metaphorical for Holden as an adult watching his younger self. The reason I am saying this is because Phoebe seems to attain a character similar to that of Holden's immature and childish version. When Holden is in control of Phoebe again, he therefore is in control of his childish feelings. The picture above is a picture I took a long time ago but I had chosen it for several reasons. First of all the reflection symbolizes what I had previously stated. Second the darkness to the right is beginning to become overcome by the light from the dock symbolizing rebirth. Maybe I am over thinking about the reflection, but tell me what you think. Do you agree/disagree, or do you have another idea? If you do, share.
As I had read this chapter, I couldn't bother but notice the symbolic meanings that had been in the subtext of this part of the book. Holden entered this chapter with fear and depression. Mr. Antolini had supposedly touched his head in a weird perverted way but we don't know if that happened. I think Holden did get touched but maybe not in a weird and perverted way. On the other hand if Mr. Antolini touching him is true, anyone petting your head at night probably is touching you in a weird way. This brought up bad memories for Holden, yet I found this particular section less important and meaning-full than the other half of this chapter. When Holden tells Phoebe that he is leaving, she is willing to leave with Holden and leave school, her play, and family behind. Holden immediately responds with harsh words and keeps telling her to shut up. This might be a sign of Holden being angry with himself for having the idea of leaving. This part also seemed like the abyss to me because for Holden to tell his sister, the person he loves most, to shut up made me feel bad for both Phoebe and Holden. In my opinion Phoebe is almost used as a mirror to show that Holden has matured. He is constantly reminding her of what she would leave behind if she had left and telling her that her leaving is ridiculous. Phoebe is the reflection of Holden's childhood. She wants to leave everything behind and become free again while Holden in his more mature form is talking about how ridiculous the idea was. In this chapter he also makes a rebirth. When he is going to the zoo and letting Phoebe ride the carousel and watching her as an adult to his or her child. This shows he is in control of his emotions once more. It might also be metaphorical for Holden as an adult watching his younger self. The reason I am saying this is because Phoebe seems to attain a character similar to that of Holden's immature and childish version. When Holden is in control of Phoebe again, he therefore is in control of his childish feelings. The picture above is a picture I took a long time ago but I had chosen it for several reasons. First of all the reflection symbolizes what I had previously stated. Second the darkness to the right is beginning to become overcome by the light from the dock symbolizing rebirth. Maybe I am over thinking about the reflection, but tell me what you think. Do you agree/disagree, or do you have another idea? If you do, share.
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I really like the picture you took and chose for this chapter. I agree with you about how it symbolizes the metaphorical darkness Holden is in throughout the novel. In this chapter I think that Holden is finally beginning to mature and possibly even come out of the abyss. The abyss to me is more than just one moment. However, him telling Phoebe to shut up is defiantly part of the abyss for me. I also agree about how you said Holden and Phoebe mirror eachother. Holden sees that leaving is a childish decision, he only realizes this however when he sees Phoebe trying to do this. I think he finally realizes that it's a bad idea to leave because of Phoebe. I think it was sweet of Phoebe to go with her older brother, but I also think she wanted to go with him because she knew that he needed her.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Anyone touching you head at night is touching you in a weird and perverted way. Unless it's your parents checking your temperature. Yeah and when he does, it brings up memories of... him being sexually approached multiple times in the past by gay perverts? If this is the case I'd say if he's a little crazy that's fine. However, this chapter also shows a little of Holden telling the truth. The truth is that Phoebe loves him more than anything, and it is proven that this is not all lies and slander. She is willing to leave everything behind to go and live with him in his little fantasy world. I guess when it comes to family, he's not crazy.
ReplyDeleteI think Holden was telling the truth when he said that Mr. Antolini was touching him pervertedly. I agree with you though when you said that Holden is being angry with himself for having the idea of leaving and that is why he got so angry at Phoebe when she asked to go with him. I dont agree with you though when you said that Holden telling Phoebe to shut up was possibly the abyss. This scene was not big enough and I think the abyss was a much larger picture than this and I also think that his abyss has been slowly going on for quiet awhile. I also don't think that his rebirth has occurred yet.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, John David, and disagree with you, Selim. I think that Holden's abyss has been carrying over chapter by chapter and it does not end by the end of the book. Also, I do not think that his rebirth has come yet either. I think that the scene of him being happy while watching Phoebe is a potential event that may lead into the rebirth, but I think it is still part of the abyss. I think Holden's rebirth will occur after the book when he finds a mentor that is not phony, and one he can trust. If a mentor like this shows up, I think Holden will be able to be guided properly over the cusp of manhood and come to realize that adulthood is not so bad. Even though I don't think his rebirth has happened yet, I think that your picture, Selim, expresses a rebirth very well.
ReplyDeleteNow when I think of your opinions, I believe John David's and Annie's points about the his abyss is valid. I also agree with Coleman about how he begins to tell the truth in this chapter. Now connecting to what Annie had said, the abyss was not limited to only a chapter in the book, more or less multiple parts of the book. View the end of this chapter a recovery, maybe not a rebirth from in my opinion a miniature abyss. The reason behind this is because I think Holden becomes happy again at the end of the chapter because he was with phoebe. Like Thomas said a mentor has to come into play to guide him in order to have a successful rebirth. Maybe this might clarify things.
ReplyDeleteI also disagree. i think that even at the end of the book Holden is still in his abyss, most likely or hopefully more towards the end of it too! I agree with Thomas that the scene where he is watching Phoebe may begin to lead him out of his abyss but I do not think that his rebirth has occurred. Once he goes back to school, possibly gets a few meds and most importantly gets a counselor that can relate to him and that will listen to him, I think he will come out of his abyss and go into his rebirth and become an adult and live his adulthood happily.
ReplyDeleteI'm really not sure if Holden is still in his abyss, it's kind of hard to tell. He seems to be getting better when he's in the mental institution or wherever it is which kind of makes me think he is in the process of being reborn. So i think i agree with you on that part but I cant really tell. I do think however that this isn't the only part of his abyss, i think he's been going through the abyss for a large part of the book. Maybe seeing Pheobe on the carrousel and being happy is his rebirth. Anyway, i really like the pictuer and I think it symbolizes what Holden is going through well.
ReplyDeleteI think that Mr. Antollini was just trying to be nice but that Holden is so distaught that even a kind gesture he sees as perverted. I think this is a huge hyperbole in the sense that Mr. Antolini isn't a pervert just a kind hearted man. This is not the abyess I don't think but it is getting closer. if there were more chapter we would for sure see it within one or two i think.
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