Holden is a secret phony like Stradlater is a secret slob. He goes around calling everyone else a phony to hide the fact that he is one too. In the video I think that Holden is the guy yelling that Peter is a phony. People act like this all the time. In middle school, there was a girl who was mean to just about everyone and it really hurt people. After you broke through her mean facade, I realized that this girl was actually very soft inside and had gone through much hurt and pain through were early childhood. At this one website, these people write about how they wish more people in the world were genuine, and I think this is what Holden is actually looking for in the world. (note: read the comments too)
Sunday, May 1, 2011
Phonies: Chapter 13
Throughout the entire book up to Chapter 13, Holden has always mentioned how much he does not like phonies, yet he tells us a story that reveals that he actually is a phony. He describes an event where he found out who had stolen his gloves at Pencey because at the time he wished that he had found out you had taken them. In this story, he is too afraid to accuse him of thievery he keeps saying "Nobody's calling anybody a thief. All I know is my gloves were in your goddam galoshes." Holden always says that he can't stand phonies, yet here he is too afraid to call someone a thief, even when it is obvious that he stole his gloves. To Holden, anyone who is not forthright and speaks their minds is a phony, so basically anyone who is a pretender is a phony. There is a video on Youtube from Family Guy that I think commicaly illustrates a pretender.
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I agree with you Trevin. I think that Holden is being a hypocrite because he says that he hates phonies, even though he is being phony. I also agree with you because I think that his phoniness is originating from a bad childhood or from tragic events like Allie's death.
ReplyDeleteThis is a good point. Holden mentions people as phonies all the time, and as we get further into the book, we start to see that he's one. He makes up stories, talks big game, and basically describes himself in some instances while describing others. I'm sure his peers call him out as a phony all the time. But then again, everyone has a good excuse for being a phony sometimes.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with you Trevin and think you've made a good point. And I agree with Coleman. Holden always calls others phonies, when he himself is one. But just like with that girl Trevin, we're starting to get little glimpses into Holden's actual personality. I think that Holden has put up a lot of walls, which makes him a phony, but I think he has put up those walls for a reason. And like Thomas said it could be because of a bad childhood or tragic events.
ReplyDeleteTrevin, this is a good point. Holden always talks about how people are phonies, but he sometimes acts a little phony himself. He is being a hypocrite, just like Thomas said. I also agree with you Trevin when you said that Holden goes around saying that everyone is a phony to try to hide the fact that he actually is a phony, probably from a harsh childhood, or a hard past event.
ReplyDeleteI'm not really sure if i think Holden is a phony in the way he thinks he's a phony. I agree he is one but i think he doesn't think he's one because the kind of phony he thinks is phony is different than the kind of phony he is, if that makes sense. I think the video is a really good comparison to Holden because he does say a lot of people are phony when their really not very much. I also don't agree that it was a past event that made him phony, i think that's just how he is, maybe it's part of his mental problems.
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree that there are parts of Holden's behavior that appear to be somewhat hypocritical, I do think that there is a difference between what Holden considers phony, and the way he acts. It appears that Holden's feelings about what is phony is when people pretend to be something they aren't. He talks for a long time about how the principal pretends to be nice to everyone when really he cares only about the money instead of actually about the people themselves (he treats the wealthier people much better). Holden considers this phony because he is pretending to be all nice when he really only cares about money. Holden doesn't really every pretend to be someone he isn't. The point could be argued that he is pretending to be someone he isn't by pretending to be tough. However, he never really says anything that would make him seem tough. He avoids getting into trouble with the guy over the glove. Therefore, I think that there is a difference between the way Holden acts and what he considers phony.
ReplyDeleteI agree with annie but I also agree with Julia. In my opinion if someone's personality is like Holden, it does not make them a phony. Only if the person is using the phoniness to kiss up or to give a false image with the idea of promoting themselves in anyway makes them a phony. I agree on some parts he is hypocritical, he even admits to giving the "classic bull." The difference is he is not trying to get on the person's good side, he is amusing himself. So in conclusion, he technically is a phony yet through his personality he is not.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Julia. He does have certain behaviors that are very hypocritical. Holden often acts like someone he isn't, but he at the same time he's also very straightforward. I do think, however, that Holden calls a lot of people phonies. (It does remind me of the family guy video, but most of the time, his reasons are justifiable.I dont think that Holden is a phony because he doesn't change his personality for others.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Trevin in that Holden often refers to people around him as a phony but he also portrays phony-like characteristics. I don't think he has realized that he exhibits such characteristics but since he does and he is referring to just about everyone else around him as a phony, he is considered a hypocrite. But at the same time, he is also very blunt and direct which is not something typical for phonies to exhibit.
ReplyDeleteI agree with everyone who said that Holden calls everyone around him that he does not like a phony but I do not agree with the people that said that Holden does not know that he himself is somewhat a phony. Particularly in chapter 13 Holden reveals somethings that he has held off to tell us till now like him not liking to get in fist fights or him being a virgin. It seemed to me like he did not mind fighting or he was not a virgin before this chapter because he made it seem like he was those things. In the earlier chapters he is always telling us how hes always with girls and doing stuff with them and how he purposefully started a fight with Stradlater over a lousy thing.
ReplyDeleteI think he has a great point in that Holden is a hypocrite. His favorite insult is to call people phonies yet he show several instances. although trevin's example is a good example i think there may be several better ones. for instant his being friends with Ackley yet talking about him behind his back. Also he blatenly lies to the women on the train station.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Matthew that his favorite insult is to call people phonies, even though he himself can be a phony. However, that may just be a sign of insecurity because, in most cases, when people insult others by calling them names that could describe them too, they are normally just doing that because they are insecure. Additionally i also agree with Carly that he can also be very blunt and direct. this is not and average quality for someone known as a phony, so i think that could show that he may just have phony instances, due to tragedies in his life like the death of Allie, and not necessarily be a phony himself.
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