Monday, May 2, 2011
Holden's Hatred in Chapter 15
Throughout Catcher in the Rye, Holden expresses his hatred toward things in life that annoy him a lot. He does this a lot in chapter 15. For example, Holden says "if there's one word I hate, it's grand. It's so phony" (106). Another example is when Holden is in Grand Central Station and he says that he hates it when people have cheap suitcases. In addition, Holden expresses his hatred when he is eating in a little sandwich bar in Grand Central Station and he says "I hate it if I'm eating bacon and eggs or something and somebody else is only eating toast and coffee" (110). Finally, Holden expresses his hatred when he explains why it drives him crazy when somebody is killed (especially in Romeo and Juliet), and how he hates it how Catholics always try to find out if you're Catholic. It's Holden's strange remarks like these that get me thinking. I think that the origin of all of Holden's comments like these originate from him being very self-conscious. Also, I think that he says things like this because he is very lonely and depressed, and he needs something to make him feel better about himself. It seems to me that Holden hates everything that is different from what he does or says.
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I agree with Thomas when he says that Holden expresses his hatred because he is lonely and depressed, but I don't think he does it to make himself fell better. It's almost like a natural instinct and a barrier to block the pain he is feeling from being all alone. I have to disagree about Holden being self-concious, he may be a little bit, but I don't think this has much to do with him expressing his hatred and other emotions in a negative fashion. He is too bold to be self-concious in my opinion, he might just be afraid of the unknown or what is unfamiliar to his set of morals or beliefs and automatically responds to it negatively.
ReplyDeleteI think that has the story has progressed, he has started to use the word hate more and more. At the beginning of the story, although he still expressed dislike towards certain things/groups of people, he didn't use the word hate as much. I think that as Holden starts to feel more and more lonely and depressed (as Thomas and Trevin said) he continues to find things more and more annoying, and his dislikes start to evolve into hatred.This might just be a result of the accumulation of all the things that are, in his opinion, wrong with the world. He continues to get a more negative perspective on the world which results in an increase of his passionate disliking of certain things.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you in that he is projecting hatred to other people as a replacement for the depression we have. This is the first chapter we see Holden not telling us the reader about his true feelings. his self-conciouness causes him to tell us the reader of his suposed hatred to many things and hiumanity in general but in actuallity he is a rather kind person and really does care but he doesn't tell the reader this which is onther example of his own Phony-ness if thats a word. in addition he does this to try and convince the reader that he loaths other people and thats why he is alone. But especially in this chapter we get more of the sense that he is not telling us the truth and attempting to portray himself as a rough mean person who almost chooses to be a loner rather than one that is forced to be.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Thomas. I think on the inside Holden is both self-conscious and lonely and that he is transferring his hatred to things other than himself. I agree with Matthew when he says that we are beginning to sense that Holden is not giving us the whole story. He says he hates all of this stuff because I think he doesn't want us to see through his facade. I think he is scared. I like the video that you posted. I think it's a sad scene but that video made it really funny.
ReplyDeleteI agree thomas, I think he does hate things that are different from the way he acts because he is very lonely and sad from past problems in his life, such as Allie's death. I feel like Holden also does this because he starts to realize that a lot of things are phony to him, so he hates it when people act phonie, even though he is acts phony throughout the book. I also agree with matthew when he says that in this chapter we get a feeling that he is not telling us the whole truth.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you; Holden does start to show more hatred throughout the book because of the loneliness and depression that he is facing. But truly, I dont think we can blame him for it. He's all alone, he lost his brother a few years ago, and he's also started to make that transition into adulthood, which can be very hard at times. Also, the "hatred" is showing us his descent into the abyss. It's almost like we can see him going further down into the abyss (of depression) after every time he uses the word "hate." It makes you wonder how worse this is going to get before things start to brighten up again...Or will they brighten up at all?
ReplyDeleteI agree too, but not with what Trevin says. I do think he is putting other things down to make him feel better sometimes. It makes him feel better about himself when he focuses on whats wrong with other people. Holden is being more and more hateful as he gets more and more lonely. You can tell he doesnt want to be alone because of his desperate attempts to have anyone to talk to, even the nuns. I also think some of his hatred comes from a tough childhood with his brother, Allie, dying. This wouldn't be the first book where a family member gets spiteful after someone close to them dyes, and i do think Holden and Allie were close. We don't know how Holden was before Allie dyed but he might have been different.
ReplyDeleteThomas, I as well, agree with your statement about Holden using the word "hate" more and more often. I also agree with Matthew's initial statement that stated Holden is not telling us the true story. In my opinion, this is one of the most interesting part of the book because you are constantly trying to figure out Holden's true feeling. I believe the reason behind this "hate" is to show why he is alone. He is trying to find the reason to why HE is alone because I don't think he knows. I think he is trying to change his personality before arriving home maybe to better soak in the reaction from his parents. The chapter itself was not confusing but the reasons why he takes certain actions is, to me, a mystery.
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ReplyDeleteI agree very much with you Thomas when you say that Holden's hatred comments originate from him being self-conscious and that he needs something to make him feel better about himself. I think that Holden's hatred comments give him the idea that he is better than someone just because he does not say those things even though he does some things that are very phony. It is kind of like a bully, a bully only picks on kids that are weaker just so that he can temporarily feel better and he is hiding some bad thing that has happened to him in the past and I think that this is what Holden is doing.
ReplyDeleteI think that Holden definitely shows more hatred in this chapter towards most everything. I agree that this is because he is masking his increasing level of depression as he becomes lonelier and lonelier. If I was going through everything he has been through, I would most likely act similar to Holden and show more hate than usual, also. I too agree with Matthew when he says that we are beginning to get the feeling that Holden isn't telling us the whole truth.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it does look like he "hates" a lot at this point in the book. He hates things that he finds different and weird, and proclaims himself unique and above people that act phony. This gives him an excuse not to associate himself with other people, and gives him a wall to hide behind. He likes to isolate himself and not have to deal with the pressure of fitting in with the things he finds "phony".
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with Coleman because I think Holden calling everyone phonies is an excuse or a reason that he can be alone and not hang out with anyone. It also is an excuse for him to be mad and hate a bunch of things and people because he will just say they are phony and he doesn't like things that are phony. Now i do think some people/things that holden calls phony are phony but many aren't Holden just doesn't take the time to actually meet the person or learn about something, he will almost just judge a book by it's cover and to Holden, many covers scream out 'phony'.
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