Thursday, May 5, 2011
Capter 17 was for extremly sad for me. The reason for this is because we see Holden at one of his most vulnerable states. He is screaming at Sally that they should run away from home get a car and leave. Sally then says by saying "We'll have oodles of tie to do those things- all those things ... There'll be oodles of marvellous places to go to." p. 133 Holden then responds back saying how its not the same and that they'll be bueness people and phonys and in general adults. This is really sad to me beacause it made it abundantly clear to me the reason for Holden's problems and sadness and ones that are real thing that teenagers everywhere can get upset with. He talks the whole time about how much he dislikes Sally and George the kid from Andover. Both these people have embraced their Phonyness i believe and this is why he repeatedly speaks of his hatred for Sally. Heres a video of where they were ice skating for a beter mental image as well. "http://youtu.be/3ztfjtrEmRY">
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I agree with you, Matthew, on what you are saying, but I don't think that is what this event conveys. I believe J.D. Salinger has Holden randomly decide to run away with Sally after he gets a car because he is trying to show that Holden is coming apart. This along with his key character trait of disliking phonies would, together, be the reason that he repeatedly expresses dislike to Sally and George.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Matthew. In this chapter we see Holden becoming more and more vulnerable. I agree with Trevin by saying that we are beginning to see Holden fall apart at the hinges. This chapter was sad for me mainly because Holden was so vulnerable. We get to see him in a different light now. He isn't being as careful with the "walls" he puts up like he was at the beginning of the book. Like Trevin said, he is coming apart, and I think that's why we're getting these glimpses of Holden. I agree with Matthew that teenagers can relate to being sad, but also being vulnerable.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Matthew on how Holden is in a vulnerable state, but like wise about J.D's reason why. I think J.D. Salinger was trying to show his abyss through the small details such as Sally saying he changes his tone from yelling to whispering. This might show a sign of being bi-polar. Even he himself is describing himself as crazy. I as well am hurting for Holden, not only because of his mental state, but he ruined a relationship with a really nice girl.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with everyone. I also think holden is in a low time in his life right now, and is probably about to reach his abyss or is very close to reaching it. This might be a sign about how Holden was put in to the mental institution that he is telling us his story from because he is acting more and more like someone in a mental institution would. I also agree with Selim on how I have sympathy for Holden because he is in a very bad place right now and needs help.
ReplyDeleteI don't entirely agree with you Matthew. The reason I disagree with you is because I do not think that it is sad, I just think it is odd. Also, he is contradicting himself again because he always talks about how depressed and alone he, and if he ran away, then he would be even more depressed and alone. He would mainly be hurting himself. I agree with JB when he says that it shows that Holden is getting close to the abyss.
ReplyDeleteYes think I agree with Thomas. I'm not sure that this part made me sad. When Holden started rambling to Sally about running away, then once he started taking it further than he should have it made me think that he was going insane. I agree with Selim and J.B. that when Holden was talking about running off, it shows that he's nearing his abyss.I also think that this chapter shows the reader just how depressed and sad Holden is.
ReplyDeleteI think that the saddest part about this scene is how desperate Holden has become to avoid the feeling of loneliness. We see him offer to spend a life with someone that he doesn't love or even like very much just to avoid being lonely. Also, I think that we see how desperate Holden is to find something that makes him feel better. He jumps to all these crazy ideas because he feels like his life needs a drastic change in order for him to feel better. Although he decision doesn't seem to make much sense because he barely likes Sally, I find it sad that he feels like anything different might make his life better than it currently is.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Matthew. We are starting to see more of Holden's descent into the abyss. He's become a little crazy, like when he asks Sally to run away with him. I agree with Julia when she says that the saddest part is how desperate Holden is to avoid loneliness. We can see that this boy needs company, company that he can talk to. He needs to be able to fully explain what he is going through, and not doing so is pushing him further into a state of depression (leading to the abyss).
ReplyDeleteI absolutely agree that this is Holden at his most vulnerable. He has really opened up to Sally because he needed someone to talk to and he's hoping that she will listen. However, she doesn't and he gets hurt. He may not reveal that he gets hurt, but through subtle signs you can see that he is. However, I don't necessarily think that they are ice skating for image. That may be part of the reason, but I think it's primarily because it's easy, you know what to do, and therefore doesn't put any pressure on the two for what to do.
ReplyDeleteI do think it is sad that Sally doesn't listen to Holden when he finally opens up and tries to talk to someone. But then again, to Sally, Holden could sound crazy because we are really only hearing Holden's side of the story. therefore, Sally could be smart to not listen to him because he could be trying to get her into his plan that really is still being edited. But if i were Sally i would want to listen to Holden because if he finally opens up and talks truthfully to someone, they should listen and just hear everything he has to say then respond.
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