In the Introduction to Fagles translation of the Odyssey, he writes that Odysseus differs from Achilles as a hero, because aside from his skills as a warrior and his command for respect, he "has the talent necessary for the deceiver; he is a persuasive speaker" (37). In the Odyssey, we see the definition of hero shift from a value for mere physical strength to an appreciation for the power of words, cleverness, and storytelling as well.
Why do you think societies create heroes? What values do we expect our heroes to represent? What values did the Greeks expect their heroes to represent? How does the idea of the "tragic flaw" change the way we look at our heroes? Do we look for tragic flaws today? Is Odysseus the only hero in the epic? What about Telemachus or Penelope?
Please post your response to these questions in the comments. You do not need to write more than a few sentences or a short paragraph--just your immediate thoughts, and perhaps an example to support them from the book.
I think societies create heroes to have somebody to turn to when things go wrong. We expect our heroes to represent good and justice. The Greeks expect their heroes to represent the gods and demonstrate judicious behavior. The idea of the "tragic flaw" changes the way we look at our heroes by showing us that our heroes are the same as everybody else and that they are human. Yes, we do look for flaws today. Odysseus is not the only hero in the epic. Some examples of other heroes are Telemachus and Athena. Athena is a hero because she is very helpful and she convinces Telemachus to search for news of his father.
ReplyDeleteI think societies create heroes to inspire hope in people. We expect our heroes to be just, fair, kind, and brave. The greeks expect their heroes to be god-like and almost flawless. The idea of the "tragic flaw" changed the way we look a heroes because we begin to see that they can't be perfect and that their greatest strength can also be their downfall. We look for tragic flaws today. In fact, the tragic flaw seems to be the only thing people look for anymore, so they can put themselves in a superior position for a while. I don't think Odysseus is the only hero in the Odyssey. I think Penelope is the next greatest hero because she avoids all the suitors to stay loyal to Odysseus. Telemachus is a hero because he goes on a miniature odyssey of his own to find out news on his father.
ReplyDeleteI believe that societies create heroes in order to inspire hope in people. Some values that we expect heroes to have is strength, kindness, courage and wit. The Greeks expected their heroes to have more physical values. Good strength in battle and they were often associated with the gods and have a "god-like" persona. The idea of the "tragic flaw" changes the way we look at heroes because we now know that heroes are not perfect. It shows that everyone has flaws, even the people we make out to be "perfect". I think that we do in fact look for tragic flaws today. Actually, that seems to be the main thing that people look for. Everyone wants to relate to a hero in some way. And if a hero has a flaw that makes them more "human like". I don't think Odysseus was the only hero in the Odyssey, although he was one of the greatest. I believe that Athena was also a hero. She was a hero to Telemachus because she lead him through hard times. And Athena this makes her Telemachus' hero.
ReplyDeleteI think societies create heros in times of hardship or need. The values that we expect from a hero include honesty, courage, and responsibility. The Greeks wanted their heros to be like a super-human and pretty much unstoppable. The idea of "Tragic Flaw" changed the way we look at heros because it shows us that a hero's greatest attribute can be their biggest flaw.I think we do look for tragic flaws today. I think Odysseus is not the only hero in the Odyssey, but he is one of the most well-know for his persuasive talking, and his strength on the battlefield. Penelope is also a hero because she stays loyal to her husband even thought he has been gone for a long time and when the suitors try to woo her. Telemachus is a hero because he goes on a short journey to try to find information on his father, Odysseus.
ReplyDeleteI think heroes are meant to be the people our mind conjures up as the perfect being without any errors or flaws. When we think of heroes, we make them brave, smart, kind, and talented. The Greeks usually had their heroes as people that were smart and strong enough to defeat people and take dangerous quests. The tragic flaw just makes us realize that heroes aren't as perfect as we think they are. It just makes them more human, because all humans have flaws. Today, we usually look for a person's flaws before anything else. We try to look for reasons that show why we're better then they are to make ourselves feel better. I think that Odysseus isn't the only hero in this story. I think that Athena (as Mentes and Mentor) is the hero because she steps forth to take action in helping Telemacchus learn of his father, and even helps Odysseus get off the island of Calypso and past Poseidon's storm. As for Telemacchus, I think that he isn't a hero because he decided to grieve for his father's death instead of figuring out if he was alive or not. Penelope isn't a hero either, because she is also grieved and isn't doing anything to shoo away the suitors. At least Telemacchus does on heroic deed of scaring the suitors, though.
ReplyDeleteSocieties need heroes for hope and admiration. Heroes are normally people with characteristics that people find respectable. Often times, heroes represent the things that are good about the human nature. There are many different characteristics of Greek heroes. Some heros, such as Achilles, are big, strong, heroes. Others like Odysseus are cunning and smart. In both cases the heroes are represented as having some sort of remarkable talent or gifts. The idea of a tragic flaw changes the way we look at our hero in some good and some bad ways. Obviously, we don’t want the hero to die, so from that perspective a tragic flaw is bad. However, in some ways, our heroes need tragic flaws in order for us to relate to them. Humans can’t relate to the concept of always being perfect. Stories are only good if they have some kind of stakes. If every hero were invincible, we would lose interest because the character would never have anything to lose. Therefore, there are no stakes. Even in modern time, we can relate to tragic flaws. Everyone has some kind of flaw such as over-thinking problems or getting angry easily. Odysseus is definitely not the only hero. Telemachus and Penelope are both heroes. By waiting for Odysseus’ return and not giving up they display extreme patience- an honorable characteristic.
ReplyDeleteA hero is someone, either real or imaginary, who exemplifies the values respected by his or her society. In addition, a hero must also be a leader (at least for some time) and have prominent status among his/her society. Because a hero is someone who portrays the respected values of a society, and because most renowned and successful societies honor values of goodness, we almost immediately connect the word "hero" to someone who is kind, courageous, brave, etc. HOWEVER, some societies honor different values, or visualize goodness as something that we might see as evil or immoral. A good example of this phenomena, Hitler was regarded as a hero among his loyal followers, even though what he did is regarded as morally wrong by everyone now. Therefore, different societies will produce different heroes.
ReplyDeleteThe Greeks, a society respecting prowess in war, xenia, bravery, strength, loyalty, and wit looked up to these values and expected their heroes to exemplify them.
However, there is something that separates a hero from a god. Both are a representation of the values that any given society respects, but gods are flawless, and heroes will always have a "tragic flaw". This idea of a tragic flaw is what makes us see our heroes as human, because no human can be perfect. A well known example is Achilles' heel, his only vulnerable spot. As result of a hero being venerated as an honorable being times over and then having one flaw (hence the name TRAGIC flaw), we remember them for that flaw. We do not look for these flaws, they just seem to stand out to us due to their juxtaposition to all of the good characteristics.
Without a doubt, Odysseus is NOT the only hero in the epic. He is just the most stressed. Telemachus is a hero because he shows xenia to the suitors even though they are pigs. He is a hero also because he portrays bravery through confronting the suitors and embarking upon a quest to find out what has happened to his father, Odysseus. Penelope is a hero as well, because she shows loyalty and moral strength by resisting the suitors throughout all of the years.
i think societies create heroes to inspire people and to have someone to look up to and make people want to accomplish goals. a few values we expect a hero to represent are courage, strength, intelligent, kind, and brave. the Greek heroes were thought more in a physical way through strength and size. the idea of tragic flaw changes the way we look at heroes because it shows us that even people who are pictured as flawless make mistakes just like us. i do think we look for tragic flaws today, i think its one of the first things people look for because its something they can relate to with a hero. i think Odysseus was a main hero in the Odyssey but i don't think he was the only. i think Athena was a hero too. Especially to Telemachus by the way she helped him through his short journey to find his father. i also think Penelope was a hero because she showed loyalty and faithfulness by resisting the suitors through Odysseus' journey even though it was years without even knowing Odysseus was still healthy and strong.
ReplyDeleteI think societies crete heroes to give people hope. They make people feel safe and protected in their community. We expect heroes to guide us and keep us safe, steer us in the right direction, care for us, and always be there for anyone who needs any kind of assistance. Greeks expected heroes to lead them to victory and be strong, powerful leaders. A heroes tragic flaw makes it so their not too much superior, making it so we almost feel better about ourselves. Their tragic flaw also is a set back though, but it makes them more relatable to normal people because everyone has something they're bad at. We still look for tragic flaws, especially with people we hold to a higher standard such as celebrities. if they do one thing wrong they are harshly criticized unlike a normal person, we have to remember that these 'heroes' are still people to and they will make mistakes. Odysseus isnt the only hero but penelope hasnt done anything heroic in my opinion yet in the book. Telemachus showed heroism by being brave enough to stand up for his house and mother as well as set off on a journey to find his father.
ReplyDeleteSocieties created heros so that that they could have someone to look up to and to make them have hope in times of distress.The values Heroes are expected to have are to be brave, smart, humility and to put themselves after others. A tragic flaw changes the way we see heroes because before they had no weakness and were invincible. But because of a tragic flaw it makes heroes seem more human and relatable. We look for tragic flaws to make our daily heroes seem more human so that we can have excuses for doing bad things because we can just say if our heroes have flaws than so can we. I think that both Odysseus and Telemachus are both the heroes of the story.
ReplyDeleteI think society creates heroes because society needs some people to look up to, and also need protection from certain things. These things could be physical dangers, or even emotional or psychological dangers. We would probably want a hero to have many traits, including bravery, modesty/humility, leadership skills, and devotion. The Greeks had probably also had these very same traits, but also including very great fighting skills. If a hero has a "tragic-flaw", then it changes our view towards them because we then look at them, not only as non-perfect, but far from it. I do not know about everybody, but I do try to discover the "tragic-flaws" in people around me, so I could better understand who they are, and what kind of person they are. Odysseus is definitely a hero in this epic, but there is also Athena for her generosity and guidance, Telemachus, for remaining patient for his father and becoming more of the man of the house, and Penelope, for her loyalty to her husband, Odysseus, while he is still striving to return home from war.
ReplyDeleteI think societies create heroes because every society needs somebody to look up to and compare themselves to. Also, heroes are a form of protection either from physical or mental things. The values that i think a hero is expected to represent is bravery, courage, strength physically and emotionally, and the ability to be a leader. These traits are also what the Greeks expected to find in their heroes except most heroes in the Greek stories only had one major trait, for the most part. The heroes in Greek times also had a major flaw though. This flaw is often times called their tragic flaw. when a hero has a tragic flaw it often changes the way we look at them. For example we only remember them for their tragic flaw, not for the good things they had or did. I do think that we look for tragic flaws in people today so that when we compare ourselves to them we can say that we are better then them even if were not. Odysseus is a major hero in the epic but hes not the only one. Penelope is a hero because she is patient and trustworthy throughout the entire time Odysseus is gone. Telemachus shows hero traits because he takes over his fathers kingdom while he is away and he leads a voyage to look for his father.
ReplyDeleteI think societies creat heroes to give people hope. They make people feel safe and protected in their community. We expect heroes to guide us and keep us safe, steer us in the right direction, care for us, and always be there for anyone who needs any kind of assistance. Ancient greeks expected heroes to lead them to victory and to be strong, powerful leaders. A heroes tragic flaw makes it so their not too much superior, making it so we almost feel better about ourselves. Their tragic flaw also is a set back though, even though it makes them more relatable to normal people because everyone has something they're bad at. We still look for tragic flaws, especially with people we hold to a higher standard such as celebrities. if they do one thing wrong they are harshly criticized unlike a normal person, we have to remember that these 'heroes' are still people to and they will make mistakes. Odysseus isn't the only hero but Penelope hasn't done anything heroic in my opinion yet in the book even though shes been comendable for not giving in to the suitors and waiting for her husband. There is a fine line between comendable and heroic, I think that comendable can even be a synonym for heroic. Telemachus showed heroism by being brave enough to stand up for his house and mother as well as set off on a journey to find his father.
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